Connecting core data to your marketing and sales platforms can unlock huge opportunities, but only if the foundation is built correctly. In this episode of the Hit Record Podcast, Meredith Olmstead talks with Austin Wentzlaff, CEO and Founder of Nook, about what banks and credit unions should consider before tackling a data integration, from security and scalability to choosing the right data and avoiding costly mistakes.
1. Build your data foundation for the long term. An integration that works today may not work as your use cases grow. Plan for how marketing, lending, and sales may eventually use the data.
2. Security should be part of the decision from day one. Financial institutions need to understand where their data lives, how it moves, and how sensitive information is protected.
3. Start small and prove the value. Begin with the data and users you actually need, create some early wins, and expand from there instead of trying to integrate everything at once.
Transcription:
Meredith Olmstead:
Hi, there. I'm Meredith Olmstead, CEO and founder of FI GROW Solutions. We are a digital marketing and sales support agency. We work exclusively with community banks and credit unions. And I am here with a partner agency that we work with on a regular basis, Nook. And Austin Wentzlaff is the CEO and founder at Nook. And we have been working together recently on several different kinds of projects, but one of which is data integrations for several credit union clients. And so we've been talking a lot about the different issues that we're running into, and I said, "You know what? Let's hit record on this, Austin. Would you mind coming on to our podcast and just chatting a little bit about what we're seeing in the marketplace for data integrations for credit unions and community banks, big picture items to consider and mistakes or pitfalls to avoid?" So say hi, Austin, if you want to, and maybe introduce yourself a little bit to everybody on the podcast.
Austin Wentzlaff:
Sure, yeah. Hey, everybody. I am Austin Wentzlaff, like Meredith said, founder and CEO of Nook. I've been in the crediting industry in particular for a little over a decade now, bringing new technology solutions into the industry, always working at CUSOs. So Nook is a CUSO as well, and it's actually the fourth CUSO I've been a part of in that 12-year stint. So that's kind of been what I've been focusing on is trying to better this industry and a lot of that means bringing better technology into it, which is the main point of today's conversation and how we're doing that.
Meredith Olmstead:
Yeah. Absolutely. Awesome. Well, love working with CUSOs and anybody who's kind of dedicated to community finance and community-based financial institutions for sure, credit unions in particular. Okay, so you all basically provide, you do a lot of different things. Some of the stuff you do is similar to what we do for clients from a digital marketing perspective. But one of the things that you're really expert on and that you do that we don't do, and this is how we ended up working together, is you provide a data connector, if you will, that brings core data, but then also data points from lots of other systems or it can, into one place, kind of like a central warehouse, a data warehouse, cleans that all up and then puts it into HubSpot for our clients. So that's this pretty amazing software and system that you all have developed. And so there's a lot of other systems out there though and a lot of other approaches for data integrations with core and with other systems.
So I mean, if people are just big picture, even apart from what Nook does and what FI GROW does, what are some of the main things that we're seeing or that you're seeing regularly when you're having conversations with people at credit unions or smaller community banks and they're trying to figure out, okay, how do I integrate my data with whatever marketing and sales software or sales tools I'm using? So what's some of the stuff that you're running into that people need to be considering?
Austin Wentzlaff:
Yeah, I think what they're running into is what we ran into because when we started this business, we originally were going down the path of we want to level up the game for credit unions and banks and so on and so forth to do better with member relationships. And that led us down the path of HubSpot because we've been big fans of HubSpot for a long time. It's a phenomenal tool. So we started down that journey and then we quickly realized, well, wait a minute, this thing's only really as good as the data foundation that lives underneath it, so how are we going to solve for that problem? And to your point, there's a million and one solutions that say, "Data integration, something or another." So we looked at a handful of them and started to go down the list of what are the pros and cons of each of them and ultimately came to the conclusion that we got to build our own from scratch because there really wasn't one that met our needs.
There wasn't a purpose built RevOps data integration platform, if you will. So we decided that's what we need to do is ultimately build this solution. And the reason why is you have a lot of companies out there that understand credit union data. I could name a ton of data integrators that exist in this credit industry, but basically none of them know HubSpot. And then on the other side of the spectrum, you have quite a few companies in the credit industry that know HubSpot very well, like you guys, but they maybe don't know credit union data integration because that's not a discipline you've built over the years. So we come with both sides of that. We're not trying to be the end all be all by any means, but we want to make sure that we both have data integration expertise and deep HubSpot expertise so that we can actually build out the right HubSpot architecture because that's what it comes down to too, is you can smash the data into HubSpot, but that doesn't mean it's going to work.
You got to figure out how to make HubSpot make it work. And in order to do that, you have to have someone that has a deep understanding of how to build custom objects, which objects should be custom versus which times should we use standard ones? What are the properties that should go underneath each object? It's complicated stuff. Even though HubSpot itself is a very intuitive tool, re-architecting it is a unique piece. So we found our-
Meredith Olmstead:
Very much, yeah.
Austin Wentzlaff:
Yeah, we found a very niche, niche opportunity and went after it. And that's where we're seeing our success is in that tech and data enablement for HubSpot clients.
Meredith Olmstead:
Yeah. And the cool thing about that kind of approach is you basically can centralize the data governance of whatever it is that is that you're choosing to bring out of, maybe it's your core, but maybe it's also several other different systems so you can make sure that you have a central location, like a single source of truth for your data. So in you all's case, it definitely would be your data connector, you have the Nook Data Connector where you can clean up data, make sure that there's no duplicates or that whatever, say you define a member as or a new member versus an existing member or whatever those things might be, you set those parameters in one place and that is really your single point of truth, which is huge when you're quality assurance, when you're going through and making sure that, hey, the information you have in one place matches the information in another, and if it doesn't, you got to figure out where was the disconnect?
Yeah, we've seen so many different approaches to how to organize credit union's core data in HubSpot, and that's where, I mean, I've probably seen it done five different ways, six different ways or more. And so it is really, really important to consider what you're doing with that data and whether or not how you're architecting it is going to hold up over time. And I think that that is where a lot of times you get people get in trouble because they're trying to do it, not in a standard way. They might try to be doing a custom integration, but they may set it up slightly, I don't want to say wrong, but just inefficiently. And so then over time you run into situations where you can't sort for something or where you end up with duplicates or you can't match certain accounts with certain members or certain contacts because they don't have the same member ID or whatever it might be. There's all kinds of little data problems that you run into. What about security cost? What kind of stuff are you running into there?
Austin Wentzlaff:
Yeah, well, I think on the architecture piece of it, you just said it perfectly, which is it's not wrong how a lot of people are setting it up. It's just different and it might not be the most optimal different way of doing things. So that's one of the things that we've been very careful about is, let's not customize anything unless we absolutely exhaust all options of standard functionality within HubSpot. Because to your point, that's where you start getting into trouble is, it works, but does it scale? And a lot of what we're finding is the answer is, yeah, you can have a platform that works for a year. Everybody's fine and dandy with it. We're running campaigns, we're doing all the stuff that we wanted this platform to do, but now I want to integrate my next data source. I want to add that next set of users. I want to expand that use case and it all comes crumbling apart.
Meredith Olmstead:
And you're stuck. Yeah.
Austin Wentzlaff:
Yeah, it wasn't built for that. So I think that's a huge part of what we're doing as we consider data integration. And then the second part that you just described is the security aspect. So that was one of the biggest problems, if you will, that I had with this because we went through a ton of different options out there and we figured out there was two dominating themes of how you get your data into HubSpot. First one was you already have a really robust data integration platform in place and you're going to try to use that. And that might be good if you've already invested the $8,000 a month that you're going to be paying into that thing, but you're not going to buy that just because you want HubSpot. So for those case scenarios, it doesn't make sense, but if you already have it, then maybe that's a viable path, but that's a smaller percentage.
And then the other side of the spectrum was you're not going to spend eight grand a month, so you need a cheaper tool that makes it make sense with what you're going to be paying for HubSpot. And those tools exist out there, but in my opinion, they're too basic for the credit union use case because credit unions have really complicated data, not just in the sense that we have really complicated relationships with our members and their households and all of the stuff that goes along with attributing the right accounts to everybody, but also are dealing with really old, old systems, like 30-year-old systems in a lot of case, and that creates its own challenges. So those tools don't really work for that. But the biggest thing is the data security. That was the big no-go for me was that those tools are third party middleware hosted data environments, and some of them are only a couple hundred bucks a month.
So I think that should just cause alarm for you right there. It's like maybe you're paying for some basic ETL tools, but you're not paying for super advanced data security. And if you're a community financial institution, that should be a deal breaker. And that's what we've started to see. We've had a couple credit unions that went down the path and got all the way to the finish line, and then due diligence, their security and compliance team failed those integration solutions and said, "Nope, we can't do that." Which bodes well to what we're doing because even before we knew that, we knew we wanted to build a solution that can be implemented within the credit union's environment. I don't want data to leave until it absolutely has to, and that would be whatever you see at HubSpot.
Meredith Olmstead:
That's always been a game changer for us when we started working with you all, because it was like, it solves for so many things because you just are never exiting their existing firewall system, so you don't even really, they're already SOC 2 compliant because it's never leaving. The stuff that the really, really sensitive data, transactions, social security numbers, account balances, all those kinds of things stay right where they need to be, where they're safest. So yeah, for sure, when something seems like it's too good to be true cost-wise or in some other ways, often it is and you are getting what you pay for it. And then we've also seen though, we've seen solutions that are a lot more expensive that are way less effective too. So I think that goes to be really making sure that you have a partner who understands both where the data is when it starts and what you're going to do with it when you finish.
So in our case, we're talking a lot about HubSpot, but if you want to integrate your data with a different marketing automation platform, that's fine. Just make sure that whoever you're working with understands how to construct and architect that data for that endpoint use case. And so that's really important. I think that is where we've definitely seen integrations in the past, that's where they're all failing basically, is where you have people who they know how to move data, but they're moving it in a format that isn't useful once it gets to where it's going. And honestly, HubSpot's not the best place to clean data up. It really isn't. That's why they launched Data Hub, but it's not a great solution. So the better you can format that stuff before it gets into, this is a marketing and a sales communication platform. It's not meant for data slicing, slicing and dicing data as much. What are other pitfalls? We've said a couple, making sure you have a good partner, make sure security considerations. What are some other pitfalls to avoid?
Austin Wentzlaff:
Yeah, I think, did we say scale yet, scalability? I think that's a big one. So I think the biggest thing that we're encountering, so Nook is actually on a weird growth journey, which I wouldn't have forecasted 12 months ago, which is the bulk of our credit union clients are existing HubSpot users that have been on the platform for at least 12 months, and then they come to us, which I would've thought we kind of lost that deal, we're not getting back in, they have another partner, but it all comes down to scalability.
It's, we ran this thing as far as we can run it, and now we're hitting all of the different roadblocks that we unconsciously set up at the very beginning because we didn't build this with the idea in mind that this is going to be a true end-to-end revenue operations platform that can do all the things that HubSpot should do for a credit union, but they built it for the marketing use case because marketing brought it in and then they go, "Oh, CRM, so let's do the CRM stuff." And it's like, "Well, you didn't think about that on day one, so now let's rebuild it." I debated telling one of our clients this because we were going through how do we help them because we were not going to do the data integration for them yet.
We were going to help them more on professional services side, but it was just an absolute mess and we couldn't. We couldn't help them. So we went through a couple different options, and one of the options I told my team internally was, "I want to tell them the nuclear option." And my team was like, "You cannot say that." And then we went to them and I was like, "Sorry, I have to say it, but I actually think we might be best off going nuclear and blowing it up and starting from scratch." And the credit union without hesitation went, "Do that. We want that." I was like, "Really?"
Meredith Olmstead:
Well, it's like a renovation versus-
Yeah. I mean, if you've got a situation where the foundation and everything about it is completely built incorrectly, it is really hard to recreate it. So yeah, I could see that being an option for sure. But yeah, so making sure... People don't know what they don't know. That's the thing. And it's all marketing and all these things. I mean, life is a learning experience. So it's not like everybody, you come to the table with the answers to everything and you've anticipated every single use case, every single roadblock you might encounter. But it is important, I think, for you to work with partners who do have some real solid expertise in both areas because that will help you envision the potential for growing into the tool. So like with us, we have both marketing support and sales support in HubSpot, and it's both related to community finance, so credit unions and community banks.
I mean, we have a VP of Consumer Lending on staff who does sales training. Most marketing agencies do not have that area of expertise, but that helps us come up with, "Okay, there could be use cases for this kind of data, or for this situation, or after we build out the marketing team, then this is what we want to do with sales." And then if the data's not set up correctly, we're screwed, honestly. So it's important to understand that just because somebody's not implementing sales when they begin doesn't mean they might not ever want to. And so yeah, it's really important to make sure that your solution keeps that in mind.
The other thing, the last thing that you said that is funny: don't do too much at once. Which I love this because people try to make everything perfect. "Okay, we're going to integrate everything all at the same time. We're going to hit go on October 1st or whatever it is, and boom, we're going to be live." And that inevitably does not work really well. So talk about that a little bit.
Austin Wentzlaff:
Yeah, we see that in two areas. One is integrating data too fast, and one is buying too much HubSpot too fast. So on the data integration side of things, what we often tell our clients is we're always going to start with core just because it's the core data, the bulk of what you can do is in that data, and then we're going to start using the platform. We want to start using HubSpot now. We want to start getting value out of it as quickly as we possibly can. And then from there, let's figure out what we can't do, but what we want to do, and then determine if we're missing data in order for that.
And maybe that data comes now from LOS or it comes from Valera or it comes from a different data source, well, then that's your next data integration. So let's not integrate data just for the sake of integrating data. Let's do it use case by use case and expand it intelligently. And then I think the other side of it is buying too much HubSpot too fast. I have this conversation pretty much every single time. They come to me with, "Hey, we want 250 seats and it's a full enterprise rollout." And I-
Meredith Olmstead:
And want every member of their staff to have a seat in HubSpot and you're like, "Whoa, who's going to train all those people?"
Austin Wentzlaff:
Exactly. And that's why I always stop them. I say, "That's a phenomenal long-term aspirational goal, and I do want to see HubSpot get to that 250 seat because again, it's an enterprise end-to-end platform. It can be that for you, but do you have the cultural adoption ability here? Can you actually roll this out to 250 people? Or should we start it with a group of power users, build some internal discipline, and get some internal wins primarily so that you can go to the next group and say, "Here's why we love it. Here's why you're going to love it. You should be excited that you get to have a seat next."
Meredith Olmstead:
Absolutely.
Austin Wentzlaff:
So it's all those things where it's like you don't need to boil the ocean on day one. And in fact, if you do, I think that's where a lot of these things fall apart is we try to do too much and then nothing really happens and you don't start seeing value quickly, people start to check out.
Meredith Olmstead:
Yeah, I totally agree. Totally agree. And I think the quicker you can get things up and running and start getting some wins, the easier it is to push through full organizational buy-in and to get more people to be like, "Okay, I'll try it. Let's do it." Have a good attitude about it. I mean, you just have to be realistic. Part of people's approach to a new tool, I mean, there's a lot of tools and they come and go. And so that's the funny thing. It's like even when I was a teacher, I remember in a former life when I was a teacher, there was a new curriculum every five or seven years, brand new, "This is going to be the one that's going to save the day." And anybody who's been around for a while knows, "Okay, we'll do this for a little while and then we're going to change and do something else completely."
So if you can prove with some real actual live use case and wins in the short term, "Hey, look at what we just achieved with mortgage, or look at what we just achieved on the consumer lending side, "then you get other people bought in and it makes it much easier for training, for adoption, for getting the budget you need, all those kinds of things. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Austin, for sharing your expertise. I think this is a great topic and one that's definitely very timely. People are considering what they're going to be budgeting for for the end of the year in 2027, so I'm excited that we were able to share some of this expertise. So if you're interested in learning more about marketing and sales for your credit union, your community bank, please visit us at figrow.com or nookinc.com, I think is for the data connector for Nook. And we have lots of other podcasts, blogs, case studies, so please come and check those out. And otherwise, let's just get out there and make it happen.